Brilliant. Going to send it to everyone I know. We left California in 1991, seeking a simpler life. For the last 25 years I’ve lived in the Philippines and though the government doesn’t take care of its people as well as England does, the cultural values of interpersonal diplomacy, of strong family heritage, and universal respect for the elderly has made it impossible for me to ever consider returning to the United States. As to the audio option for your posts, I especially loved that you didn’t edit out the times when you stumbled or paused to regain a rhythm but just kept going confidently. What you had to say. It was more important than a few human pick ups. Refreshing and inspiring. Yes, please do continue making audios. I listened twice it was so meaty.
For all of these reasons, I would love to experience living in another country. If nothing else, just to know a different way of being that’s socially accepted.
Alas, I think being close to family weighs to heavy for us at this moment in our life. So I’m going to have to just continue to do the work of reprogramming myself while remaining here.
The next several months with this election is going to be an especially challenging time to stay grounded.
—
I loved listening to the audio. I was reading the post but had to start making my kids lunch. I was able to switch over to the audio and listen to the rest while I spread the peanut butter.
As an American in my early 20s, I relate to your experience of optimism, and believing that the world is "yours for the taking". However, the older I get, the more I crave community, and want to ditch the concept of individuality. I'm in the process of getting my Irish citizenship, and I daydream about a more communal life where work isn't the center of my daily life, and where I don't have to fear gun violence. I admire your bravery in doing that at such a young age, and for staying true to yourself despite the questions. I fear that I'll also have to justify my departure from corporate, individualist America, but your words give me hope!
I loved Notes on a Foreign Country, it really did capture the brainwashing and subsequent unlearning of Americans abroad, as you said. I’m now reading The Fourth Turning which I think you might also find helpful for processing the U.S.’s greatness and decline — the former being both real and imagined— as part of a cycle that can be traced to the Etruscans. All that said, I feel you! 🫠
I appreciate that! And we both know, France has plenty of its own problems and shortcomings but certain values are not up for negotiation and that means everything.
Fantastic piece, and you have left me with some much to think about (I am a Brit and am married to an American and we live in Asia!). A LOT of focus of our discussions pretty much since 2016 have been about identity and where 'home' is for us.
I understand totally and wish this was an option for my family. My husband and sister are disabled and my understanding is it’s extremely difficult to immigrate under those circumstances. 😕
You have so eloquently verbalised everything I have felt about holding the same 2 passports. When people ask where I'm from, America is the answer, the place I grew up & that formed me, but I'd never choose to live there again, especially in the crumbling state the country is now in.
Ps good thing you registered your son; as I was told by the US embassy "if you're American, he's American" and it's mandatory to register! I finally did my son at age 10 😅
I also secured US citizenship for my son, but chose not to live there. The guns, the politics, the mememe…just no. I wanted him to understand he is part of a collective, that there is a public good that must be protected — sometimes even at a cost to the individual. And I just could not send him to school knowing the statistics about mass shootings…it felt immoral when I had a choice not to.
I moved here in 2009 with my husband and infant daughter in transfer from Apple US to Apple UK. It was an extraordinary chance to experience the UK, Europe, and the Middle East, and we thought such access would be great for our kid.
I have said since that I won’t go back to CA as long as I have school-aged children — as I can’t imagine either of them dealing well with active shooter drills. We’re all dual passport holders (like you, we wanted to maximize options) but feel that Brexit has really isolated the UK, and if we didn’t own property here we might think differently about our choices for the long term.
I hear you. My prediction on Brexit: We will never full "rejoin" but over the next decade we will slowly, quietly, bureaucratically rejoin until we enjoy many of the benefits we used to. (Maybe never again freedom of movement though.) This will happen--and is already happening in some ways —because it is just good for business. Capitalism wins.
What really burns me is that the whole Brexit vote was NOT run like a California referendum, but rather like an advisory vote - and it the outcome was TREATED like it was a CA-style referendum. As if there had been formal writeups pro and con, exact plans for exit, and everything needed to make an informed decision based on facts rather than rumors and bus slogans.
I am a US citizen currently living as a nomad abroad. It's not because I truly want to be a nomad, but because I've always wanted to live abroad and don't yet have a path to apply for a permanent stay to live in my preferred city of London. Like you, many people (often those from London) are surprised when I express my desire to live there, and I often struggle to explain it. But in this piece, I think you hit on the most important aspect for me, which is that London has a diversity of thought, culture, language, food, dress, etc. that feels so much freer than the oppressive monolith of American culture. I can never realistically see myself opting to go back to that even if it means continuing to move around every few months for the forseeable future.
Thank you so, so much for your thoughtful writing. I am immensely glad to have discovered it!
Fascinating! My Grandma moved here (NZ) back in the 1950s also from California (and also never entirely lost her accent btw) so my family have many of the same cultural/identity dilemmas you’ve outlined here.
To be honest I’m often a little torn between admiration for American energy and irritation. I don’t think the optimism or can do attitude should be undervalued. I do like that Americans seem to actually value and celebrate achievement (not merely tolerate it like we do here in NZ). Though the boundless optimism does get a little annoying at times.
Basically America occupies roughly the same position Britain did 150 years ago (the only country in the world powerful enough to control the world’s shipping lanes, and thus underpin the global world order). So whether we like it or not for better or worse we’re probably stuck with America and the global hegemony for now.
And yup, here in NZ people often know more about the US elections than our own…
I didn't get around to getting US citizenship until I'd been here 35 years. Oddly, the day I became a US citizen was the only time I've been asked why I wanted to be here. And not by the immigration officer, but by the parking lot attendant! I wrote about that too: https://johnlovie.substack.com/p/ferry-to-america
My son moved back to the UK, and of course was asked the same question when he arrived. My stepdaughter's father is French, so she's just claimed her French citizenship. It's good to have a Plan B!
I grew up in the UK and I don't think I could live there now, although maybe in the north or Scotland. We're now looking at a Plan C - a retirement visa in France or Spain!
So many things resonated with my, thanks for sharing your thoughts. I moved from California to The Netherlands in 2018 and the most common question I get is, "Why did you leave California?" I didn't leave because it was bad (another millennial trying to figure out life) but stayed because it was good. The healthcare dilemma is a real one, especially as a freelancer. But I would say the driver of me taking the leap to go abroad was fueled by American optimism (you can go for anything you want)...and I'm grateful for that. Despite all the bad press, it's also what I miss about America—the optimism and idealism. As immigrants, I do know these values will be passed down whether or not you're in the US or not (my Chinese immigrant parents definitely drilled many values in me that will stay for life). I also think that's what unique about being multicultural. Thanks for sharing!
Gosh I'm surprised people even ask you that in The Netherlands! It seems objectively a much more functioning country than the US haha. I'm glad it resonated -- thanks for reading!
Brilliant. Going to send it to everyone I know. We left California in 1991, seeking a simpler life. For the last 25 years I’ve lived in the Philippines and though the government doesn’t take care of its people as well as England does, the cultural values of interpersonal diplomacy, of strong family heritage, and universal respect for the elderly has made it impossible for me to ever consider returning to the United States. As to the audio option for your posts, I especially loved that you didn’t edit out the times when you stumbled or paused to regain a rhythm but just kept going confidently. What you had to say. It was more important than a few human pick ups. Refreshing and inspiring. Yes, please do continue making audios. I listened twice it was so meaty.
Thank you Diane! I’m glad you liked the audio. I didn’t have the capacity to edit it so just read it straight through!
For all of these reasons, I would love to experience living in another country. If nothing else, just to know a different way of being that’s socially accepted.
Alas, I think being close to family weighs to heavy for us at this moment in our life. So I’m going to have to just continue to do the work of reprogramming myself while remaining here.
The next several months with this election is going to be an especially challenging time to stay grounded.
—
I loved listening to the audio. I was reading the post but had to start making my kids lunch. I was able to switch over to the audio and listen to the rest while I spread the peanut butter.
As an American in my early 20s, I relate to your experience of optimism, and believing that the world is "yours for the taking". However, the older I get, the more I crave community, and want to ditch the concept of individuality. I'm in the process of getting my Irish citizenship, and I daydream about a more communal life where work isn't the center of my daily life, and where I don't have to fear gun violence. I admire your bravery in doing that at such a young age, and for staying true to yourself despite the questions. I fear that I'll also have to justify my departure from corporate, individualist America, but your words give me hope!
You will have to justify to others, but probably not to yourself!
I loved Notes on a Foreign Country, it really did capture the brainwashing and subsequent unlearning of Americans abroad, as you said. I’m now reading The Fourth Turning which I think you might also find helpful for processing the U.S.’s greatness and decline — the former being both real and imagined— as part of a cycle that can be traced to the Etruscans. All that said, I feel you! 🫠
Oh thank you for the recommendation. I thought of your great piece for The Cut while writing this!
I appreciate that! And we both know, France has plenty of its own problems and shortcomings but certain values are not up for negotiation and that means everything.
Fantastic piece, and you have left me with some much to think about (I am a Brit and am married to an American and we live in Asia!). A LOT of focus of our discussions pretty much since 2016 have been about identity and where 'home' is for us.
Thanks for adding the audio too.
I understand totally and wish this was an option for my family. My husband and sister are disabled and my understanding is it’s extremely difficult to immigrate under those circumstances. 😕
You have so eloquently verbalised everything I have felt about holding the same 2 passports. When people ask where I'm from, America is the answer, the place I grew up & that formed me, but I'd never choose to live there again, especially in the crumbling state the country is now in.
Ps good thing you registered your son; as I was told by the US embassy "if you're American, he's American" and it's mandatory to register! I finally did my son at age 10 😅
Thank you for reading and I'm so glad it resonated! And thank you for your guidance via DM on the CBRA lol
“I often wonder how much longer I will have to answer it, if the mythology of America will ever be pierced.”
I feel this in my soul.
I also secured US citizenship for my son, but chose not to live there. The guns, the politics, the mememe…just no. I wanted him to understand he is part of a collective, that there is a public good that must be protected — sometimes even at a cost to the individual. And I just could not send him to school knowing the statistics about mass shootings…it felt immoral when I had a choice not to.
I LOVED the audio Rosie! Such a heartfelt and beautiful piece!
Thank you Carolyn! I shall do more audio in that case!
Such great writing. Thank you for those insights.
Stunning.
I moved here in 2009 with my husband and infant daughter in transfer from Apple US to Apple UK. It was an extraordinary chance to experience the UK, Europe, and the Middle East, and we thought such access would be great for our kid.
I have said since that I won’t go back to CA as long as I have school-aged children — as I can’t imagine either of them dealing well with active shooter drills. We’re all dual passport holders (like you, we wanted to maximize options) but feel that Brexit has really isolated the UK, and if we didn’t own property here we might think differently about our choices for the long term.
I hear you. My prediction on Brexit: We will never full "rejoin" but over the next decade we will slowly, quietly, bureaucratically rejoin until we enjoy many of the benefits we used to. (Maybe never again freedom of movement though.) This will happen--and is already happening in some ways —because it is just good for business. Capitalism wins.
What really burns me is that the whole Brexit vote was NOT run like a California referendum, but rather like an advisory vote - and it the outcome was TREATED like it was a CA-style referendum. As if there had been formal writeups pro and con, exact plans for exit, and everything needed to make an informed decision based on facts rather than rumors and bus slogans.
The whole thing was Cameron trying to do an end run around Farage. Then the dog caught the car. An egregious example of national self harm.
I am a US citizen currently living as a nomad abroad. It's not because I truly want to be a nomad, but because I've always wanted to live abroad and don't yet have a path to apply for a permanent stay to live in my preferred city of London. Like you, many people (often those from London) are surprised when I express my desire to live there, and I often struggle to explain it. But in this piece, I think you hit on the most important aspect for me, which is that London has a diversity of thought, culture, language, food, dress, etc. that feels so much freer than the oppressive monolith of American culture. I can never realistically see myself opting to go back to that even if it means continuing to move around every few months for the forseeable future.
Thank you so, so much for your thoughtful writing. I am immensely glad to have discovered it!
Fascinating! My Grandma moved here (NZ) back in the 1950s also from California (and also never entirely lost her accent btw) so my family have many of the same cultural/identity dilemmas you’ve outlined here.
To be honest I’m often a little torn between admiration for American energy and irritation. I don’t think the optimism or can do attitude should be undervalued. I do like that Americans seem to actually value and celebrate achievement (not merely tolerate it like we do here in NZ). Though the boundless optimism does get a little annoying at times.
Basically America occupies roughly the same position Britain did 150 years ago (the only country in the world powerful enough to control the world’s shipping lanes, and thus underpin the global world order). So whether we like it or not for better or worse we’re probably stuck with America and the global hegemony for now.
And yup, here in NZ people often know more about the US elections than our own…
Such a fascinating comment! And you're so right about Britain 150 years ago. It's just culture was a bit less globalized back then.
It was as globalised as technology back then would allow
P.S also liked the audio
Well, this was great. And I loved the voiceover! I'll be sharing with friends and family.
I have those same two passports. I wrote a little about why I came here in https://johnlovie.substack.com/p/the-idea-of-california.
I didn't get around to getting US citizenship until I'd been here 35 years. Oddly, the day I became a US citizen was the only time I've been asked why I wanted to be here. And not by the immigration officer, but by the parking lot attendant! I wrote about that too: https://johnlovie.substack.com/p/ferry-to-america
My son moved back to the UK, and of course was asked the same question when he arrived. My stepdaughter's father is French, so she's just claimed her French citizenship. It's good to have a Plan B!
I grew up in the UK and I don't think I could live there now, although maybe in the north or Scotland. We're now looking at a Plan C - a retirement visa in France or Spain!
So interesting! thanks for sharing some of your story, will have a read!
So many things resonated with my, thanks for sharing your thoughts. I moved from California to The Netherlands in 2018 and the most common question I get is, "Why did you leave California?" I didn't leave because it was bad (another millennial trying to figure out life) but stayed because it was good. The healthcare dilemma is a real one, especially as a freelancer. But I would say the driver of me taking the leap to go abroad was fueled by American optimism (you can go for anything you want)...and I'm grateful for that. Despite all the bad press, it's also what I miss about America—the optimism and idealism. As immigrants, I do know these values will be passed down whether or not you're in the US or not (my Chinese immigrant parents definitely drilled many values in me that will stay for life). I also think that's what unique about being multicultural. Thanks for sharing!
Gosh I'm surprised people even ask you that in The Netherlands! It seems objectively a much more functioning country than the US haha. I'm glad it resonated -- thanks for reading!